Feb 8, 2022
This week we sit down with North Carolina based professional gravel/ mtb racer, Dylan Johnson about his 2022 goals, coaching and hispopular YouTube channel. Dylan Johnson Coaching
Dylan Johnson YouTube
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Automated transcription, please excuse the typos:
[00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome tothe gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week onthe podcast, we've got professional, gravel and MTB racer. DylanJohnson.
Describing Dylan is simply a racer would be overly limiting. AsDylan is also a certified coach. And a YouTube personality.
I've been watching a bunch of Dylan's videos on YouTube lately,where he covers. Coaching his personal journey as an athlete andgive some detailed overviews of his participation in some of thebiggest gravel and MTB races around. What I thought is interestingabout his coverage of these events specifically is that I foundthere's a lot of takeaways from them, for me as a mid-packrider.
Not only does he describe what it's like to stay on the wheelsof some of the top racers? In the united states he takes an honestlook at his own capabilities as we all should as we'reparticipating and talks about when he's burning more candles thanhe should to stay in a particular group and what the net effects ofthat tend to be at the end of these events i thought it was superinteresting and i've really enjoyed his colorful personality onyoutube so i encourage you to give it a view.
Dylan has been accepted to race in the lifetime grand Prixseries, which covers both gravel and MTB races. So I'm supercurious how an athlete like the Olin is going to fare over thecourse of the year. And I do think that series is going to beinteresting because it's going to test a lot of athletescapabilities across.
A pretty diverse set of courses. With that intro out of the waylet's jump right into my conversation with dylan Dylan, welcome tothe show.
[00:01:47] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, thanks forhaving me.
[00:01:49] Craig Dalton: I'm super stuck tohave this conversation. I've been enjoying your work on YouTube oflate, and I'm interested very much to hear about your background.So why don't we use that as a starting point? Let's talk about howyou got into cycling and what led you to gravel racingultimately.
[00:02:05] Dylan Johnson: Yeah.
I think. Cycling seriously. I think my dad got me a mountainbike when I was probably 12 years old and started racing shortlyafter that. And I think by the time I was 15, I was, I was probablytraining pretty seriously. And I started in the mountain bike sidefor most of my. Career, if you want to call it that I've been anendurance mountain bike racer.
And just recently, probably within the last two or threeyears
made the transition not fully into gravel racing. I still, Istill do mountain bike racing, but I would say I'm much more of agravel racer now.
[00:02:41] Craig Dalton: And what part of thecountry did you grow up in?
[00:02:42] Dylan Johnson: I grew up in theWashington DC area and it's it's a pretty busy area, but I, I wentto. School at Bravard college in?
Western, North Carolina. And that's where I currently live. AndI like it a lot better just because there's a lot less people. Thewriting is a lot better, both on the road side and on the gravelside and the mountain bike side, it's just, it's just allaround.
[00:03:05] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it'sinteresting. I went to school in Washington, DC as well, andstarted as a mountain biker there. And I will say it is remarkablewithin that DC, Maryland, and Virginia area. How much decentmountain biking is there?
[00:03:18] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, it's, it'spretty good considering that it's such a densely populated area. Imean, there, there was a, there?
was a kind of rich cycling scene, I guess, just because there'sso many people that lived there, there, there just happened to be alot of cyclists we're in, we're in DC. Did you live?
[00:03:34] Craig Dalton: I w I went to Americanuniversity, so I lived in Northwest
[00:03:38] Dylan Johnson: Gotcha.
[00:03:39] Craig Dalton: and then for a while Iwas working for a DC based company and stayed with a friend inChevy, chase, Maryland.
[00:03:46] Dylan Johnson: So when you ride,what? Like Patapsco regularly?
[00:03:51] Craig Dalton: Yeah. exactly. Andthen, you know, big trips for mountain biking would be out to sayfront Royal or something like that.
[00:03:58] Dylan Johnson: Patapsco was a littlefar from me. I was in, I was on the Virginia side. So I wouldregularly ride Wakefield down head go to front Royal on theweekend. Yeah.
[00:04:07] Craig Dalton: So when you went downto university in North Carolina, had you already begun yourmountain bike racing career at that point?
[00:04:14] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I was, I, Iwent primarily just because Bravard college has a really goodcycling team. They'd won multiple non-bank national championshipsas a team at that point. So. And it's honestly the main reason Iwent there. And I was part of the cycling team, race, mountainbikes for them, collegiate cycling or collegiate mountain biking isall short cross country races.
There wasn't an endurance stuff, but there, there was a briefperiod of time where I was kind of trying to be a cross country,you know, traditional cross country, mountain bike racer. And I, Ithink that my strengths and my interests kind of lied more withendurance races. And by the time I was, I was a senior incollege.
I pretty much fully transitioned to be a endurance mountain bikeracer. So I focused heavily on the NUE series. And for people thatdon't know what that is, it's a national series for a hundred milemountain bike racing. And that was my main focus for probably fouror five years.
[00:05:16] Craig Dalton: That's interesting.Were you studying exercise physiology? I know it. And we'll getinto the fact that you're a coach now, but I'm curious, like whatled to that understanding of your own physiology that, Hey, theshort track stuff, wasn't going to do it for you. And even as ayoung man, you should transition to longer form racing.
[00:05:32] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I was I got mydegree in exercise science and it was, you know, sometimes peopleask me when they're watching, after they've watched a bunch of myvideos, like how. How'd you learn how to do all this research? I,part of it was, was through my degree. We learned how to researchcertain topics.
But yeah, I, I don't know if, I don't know if I learned that myphysiology didn't match shorter distance. Because of what I waslearning in college, it was more so just trial and error. Like I, Ijust found that the longer the race was the better I did relativeto my peers. And I think that still holds true to this day.
You know, there, there, there are people that completely smashedme in a short track race. And then if we go do a hundred milemountain bike race, it's the complete opposite. It wasn'tnecessarily an understanding of physiology, but more so trial anderror, I would say
[00:06:32] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Gotcha. So withthis endurance mountain bike racing, what year? Just to give thelistener a little bit of a timestamp, what year did you start tosee gravel starts to take off and start thinking about it to somedegree, whether you pursued it or.
[00:06:47] Dylan Johnson: so 2018 was the yearthat I did my first gravel race. And I know that gravel wasalready. Coming up at that point. The first gravel race that I didwas the CRO 10 buck 50, which is 150 mile gravel race on the coastof North Carolina, very flat. And then the second gravel race Iever did was at the time called dirty Kanza and now was Unbound aseveryone knows.
So yeah, that was my second gravel race ever, but I had a, I hada ton of experience doing endurance. Mountain bike racing. And I,you know, gravel racing is very similar. It's just a little bitless technical and a little bit more tactics. So it's not like Ididn't have experience with that kind of race
[00:07:29] Craig Dalton: When you went toUnbound back in 2018, obviously if you were focusing on a hundredmile mountain bike race, How was that leap up to 200 miles. And doyou, in retrospect, feel like you weren't prepared for it?
[00:07:43] Dylan Johnson: yeah. I was notprepared for it. I don't think. I, well, I don't want to, I wasabout to say, I don't think anyone is prepared for their firsttime, but then again, Ian Boswell literally won the thing his firsttime doing it this past year. So I don't know about that, but a lotof, a lot of even, even at the pro level, I've seen a lot of racersdo it their first time and they had absolutely no idea what theywere getting themselves into.
And I a hundred percent fall in that boat as well. I didn't knowwhat I was getting myself into. I think the biggest thing is.Longer in duration than what I was used to a hundred mile mountainbike races for me usually take anywhere from the six hour range tothe eight hour range, depending on how demanding the courses andUnbound is I've never gotten in the I've done it twice.
And I think this year was in the 11 hour range and I forget whatit was in 2018. It's quite a few more hours out there than, than ahundred mile mountain biking. And I think the other thing too, isthat it's, it's so exposed all day. There's no shade. You reallygot to contend with heat. There's, there's, you know, either two orthree aid stations on the course, depending on what they decide todo.
So you've got to carry a lot of stuff with you. It's a lot ofplanning. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff I wasn't prepared for. I made awhole video about that experience. And I don't know, it was, it wasquite an experience that first time.
[00:09:13] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Like yousaid, I think regardless of how much research you do, it's going tobe a surprise, which your body starts to do after 10, 12 hours,because it's impossible to get everything, right. Yeah.Particularly I
[00:09:26] Dylan Johnson: done the race?
[00:09:27] Craig Dalton: I haven't done, Ihaven't done a Unbound to.
[00:09:31] Dylan Johnson: Yeah.
[00:09:31] Craig Dalton: But I think I've done,you know, I've done these ultra endurance style races and you just,you just don't know where you're going to stack up until thatday.
And even you can't compare one day to the other, right? Yournutrition, the temperature out there, your hydration, other riders,whether you're chasing wheels or not, these all come into play atsome point during those days.
[00:09:52] Dylan Johnson: definitely.Definitely. Yeah.
And The, the other thing I'll add in with Unbound, particularly,it's a problem with a lot of gravel races, but particularly Unboundis, is mechanicals. It seems like in flat tires,
It seemed like half the pros that were out there this year.Probably half the field in general, not just pros dealt with somesort of flat tire issue.
[00:10:11] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundredpercent. I feel like we've talked about it on the podcast on anumber of occasions. Like you've gotta be prepared for that bothmentally, physically, and technically. So if you get a flat, justget off your bike and change it and keep going, because you may bedepressed that you've lost the group you were in, but chances are,some of those are gonna guys are gonna in.
Girls are going to have those same issues and you may find yoursame self back in that group. As long as you're mentally preparedto continue fighting throughout this.
[00:10:38] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, Lawrence 10damn got second place. I mean, he was in the sprint finish for thewind, got a early flat tire. Had to plug it. I believe CollinsStrickland had a flat, had to plug it got fifth place, constructStrickland. When he won, got a flat tire late in the race had toplug it. Any, those were not, those were not the only two riders inthe top 10 that got flats. So it's. It is not a race where a flattire is a race ending mechanical by any means.
[00:11:06] Craig Dalton: So that's 2018. You doyour first Unbound kind of first season doing a couple of gravelraces. Did you feel the draw at that point, or were you still kindof sticking to the endurance MTV scene for the primary focus ofyour efforts during the year?
[00:11:21] Dylan Johnson: Yeah,
I mean, I, I really enjoyed gravel racing when I tried it and itwas. Probably a slow transition. I would say I started doing moreand more in gravel races and less and less mountain bike races.2020 was supposed to be the first year that I was going to be allin on gravel. And of course you know, there was hardly any racingin 2020 there was a little.
[00:11:44] Craig Dalton: happened as itdid.
[00:11:46] Dylan Johnson: Right. There was alittle bit, there was a little bit of racing in the fall, but, butI would say for the most part, that was a non season.
[00:11:53] Craig Dalton: That's when you firstcame on my radar, because I was sort of on the sidelines as a fanof the sport and podcaster looking at 2020 as this potentiallybreakout year where there's been enough noise about gravel the lastfew years that anybody with any cycling shops off-road is going tostart racing gravel.
And we saw a lot of women come into the field and a lot of men.And I remember seeing your performance, I think, at the sugarcane.W w what became the sugar can one 50 and thinking to myself, oh,there's another name to watch who I haven't been aware ofbefore.
[00:12:28] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Thatsugar cane race. I, that was I, that was so early in 2020 that Idon't even think I knew what COVID was at that point. It was, itwas in January. So, but it was, it was a good thing that I got thatrace in before everything shut down. Cause, cause that oneobviously went well and, and I think, you know, I had alreadyplanned to kind of transition to gravel, but that.
You know, it, it made me think, all right, well, this issomething that I'm good at. I should, I should pursue.
[00:13:03] Craig Dalton: I'm curious, just froma sponsor perspective, as you're sort of managing yourself as aprofessional athlete and bringing together sponsors to support yourefforts. Was that a difficult transition from people you wereworking with? Did you wholesale have to get new sponsors who werewilling to support you in gravel or was it a more natural?
Yes. And kind of conversation with them.
[00:13:25] Dylan Johnson: It was, it wasnatural. The bike sponsor that I was, that I had was nine or bikes.I was working with them.
for five years. They make both mountain bikes and gravel bikes.They want to sell both mountain bikes and gravel bikes. The factthat I was raising gravel, I mean, they were, they were supportiveof that.
The other sponsors that I have, I mean, it's not, you know, Ican't even think of another sponsor that necessarily made onlymountain bikes specifically. The equipment. And now I, now I tofind a new version of that. So for the most part, I kept all mysponsors and they, they were happy about it because it seemed likegravel was getting more attention in.
[00:14:05] Craig Dalton: Let's talk a littlebit about your 20, 21 season then, cause you've certainly put ineffort in terms of a number of big races and series. Do you want tojust kind of give me some highlights throughout the year? I knowyou had some great success at BWR and he revisited your, yourUnbound experience.
We'll talk about a few of those events.
[00:14:25] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I think thefirst big one was gravel Locos, which was the first, this was the20, 20 or 2021 was the first year that they held it. But they theymanaged to get a lot of big names there. Warren's 10 dam Pete stet,not Collins, Strickland, Ted king. They were all there. That was myfirst big gravel race of 2021.
And I ended up getting fourth place in that, which I was veryhappy with. It was a brutal race, 150 miles. And it, the last twohours of the race were pouring rain. So I was very pleased withthat Unbound. I felt like I came in very well prepared physically.Although I think. The tricky thing was Unbound is that heatacclimation is so important for that race.
And it's early enough in the year that for most people wheremost people live in the country, they haven't fully heat acclimatedat that point. Like it's the first weekend of June. It's not likethey've been riding their bike all summer in the heat. And I feltlike I could have done a little bit better with heat acclimation,but it just, it really just, wasn't hot enough here in BravardNorth Carolina.
For the month leading into that race, I did feel like the heatgot to me, but by far, my biggest issue that I had with that racewas the same issue that so many people had, which was a ton of flattires. And I never had, I never had to put a tube in, but I, I wentthrough a lot of plugs. I went through a lot of CO2.
I even had to at the second aid station, I, I could have grabbedmy spare wheel and I totally should have, but 10 minutes after,after leaving that aid station, the tire went completely flatimmediately, and I didn't have plugs or CO2 is left. So I justturned around, went back to the aid station, got the spare wheeland was on my way. I w I was still happy with that performance. Igot 12th place there, despite all the issues, but you know, like Isaid, that's a race. You part of the race is dealing with issues,whether it's flat tires or dehydration or bonking everyone's goingto have issues. And then the BWR series went really well, too.
I ended up finishing third place overall in the VWR series,which shows really how.
[00:16:38] Craig Dalton: Yeah, that's a hugeaccomplishment. When you think back across these races that you'veparticipated in on the gravel side, have you started to hone in onthe types of courses that suits your technical skills andphysiology better than others?
[00:16:54] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I usually thelonger the race, the better it can get a little extreme with races,like Unbound. That's a V that's a very, very long race. And I thinka lot of people, even if they. Physiology has set up for longerraces are gonna struggle. So yeah, usually, usually the longer therace, the better, and I'm, I'm very happy that gravel embraced longdistance gravel could have easily turned into, you know, 30 mileshort races.
And that, that could have been what most people see as a gravelrace, but it seems like every single big gravel races is a hundred,150 200 which is. I'm, I'm a kind of a middle weight writer. Ibounced between 150 and 155 pounds. So I'm not a pure climber andI'm not, not a massive guy. What I do find is that if a course hasa ton of super steep climbing, then the outright climbers like PeteStettner or, or someone like that
they're just going to walk away with.
At least from me, they're going to walk away from me on a, on asuper steep climb. So I actually, I actually don't mind a fairlyflat to rolling course because I, I find that I can at least staywith the front group for a longer period of time and maybe makesome, some of the right moves at the end. I think my chances arebetter.
[00:18:19] Craig Dalton: Do you find that anyof these courses are having technical enough sections that makeyour mountain bike background and asset?
[00:18:28] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. the BWR raceshave really embraced that most of the BWR races have some sort ofsingle track. The BWR Utah race has a very long section of fair,relatively technical single track. I say relatively because we'retalking about gravel racing here. If you're on a mountain bike, Idon't think it'd be a huge deal, but when you're 110 miles into agravel race and you've got 30 minutes of fairly bumpy, singletrack, that's, that's pretty significant.
I think, I think that played into my strengths a lot. And, andthe other BWR races have similar features like that. Some, somegravel races are just straight up gravel for the whole thing, youknow, like Unbound and there was no single track. So you really geta mix. I think if there are, if there are technical spots thatsuits me, if there aren't technical spots, I don't really, I don'treally sweat it.
It just means that things are going to be a little bit moretactical, probably.
[00:19:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. One of thethings that I don't think we've mentioned it yet on air is thatyou've got a YouTube channel, which both covers your profession asa coach, as well as doing some race analysis from the races you'vedone. And for the listener, I'd very much recommend finding Dylan'sYouTube channel and I'll put it in the show notes because he does agreat job of showing behind the scenes.
And it's not so much as, you know, as a listener, like I don'tgeek out as to who's winning the race necessarily, but I do thinkDylan does an excellent job of telling stories that can translateto everybody in the race. And specifically, as I mentioned to youoffline Dylan, I really like that you have a strong understandingof.
How the course is going to play out how, what abilities you haveand where to burn matches. And I forgot which one I was watchingrecently, where, you know, you had laid out the course profile andyou had the, the undulating Hills throughout the race mapped outvery specifically. And you're able to articulate where you thoughtyou could be successful and where you thought you were going tohave channel.
So I thought it'd be great and people will go watch these videosafter the fact. But maybe if you could just talk through a littlebit, how you think about when you look at a course profile and thenyou're out there in, let's say it's the top 30 of people that areout there until that breaks down further.
How are you thinking about tackling Hills or technical sectionswhere you're going to have to exert more than the average amount ofeffort?
[00:20:51] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I mean, sousually the w the way. That gravel races play out. Is that thefront group? I mean, every once in a while, somebody would try along distance breakaway and it's successful. That's what happenedat VWR, California. I really was semi-successful I guess the only,the only person that caught the.
The people that went for it was pizza And he ended up winning,but, but usually what ends up happening at long distance gravelraces is that the front group just gets smaller and smaller andsmaller as the race progresses until it's a very elite group ofriders and they either have to attack each other in the last coupleof miles, or it might come down to a spring finish or a final climbor something like that.
So, I mean, if you're, if you're strong enough to make thatselection, the last. You know, the last quarter of the race is veryimportant. It's the most important part of the race. So you got tolook at what, what the last, you know, what the last quarter of therace has. I mean, sometimes there's a big climb.
Sometimes there's a single track section. I made a video aboutDWR, Utah, not from this year, but from from the previous year2020. And it has both, it's got a massive climb and then it's got asingle track section that, that definitely played into the racetactics there. And then you kind of have to, you kind of have toget a feel for what your competition's strengths are as well.
Like, you know, I know that if I'm, if I'm riding with Petestead and I he's, he's a great climber. I know that if I don't knowKeegan Swinson's in the group, he's an amazing. Technical writerand an amazing climber. If it's, if it's Ian Boswell, same thing,amazing climber, just all around strong. The thing about IanBoswell and I did talk about this in my BWR North Carolina video isprobably one of his weaknesses is his technical ability.
And we both, I would say me, Russell Fenster Wald and CarrieWarner were trying to. Exploit that at that race. So anytime therewas a technical gravel dissent, we were really trying to pin it inorder to put some distance between us and an Ian. Unfortunately wedidn't, you know, we didn't succeed in doing that.
He managed to catch us back every single time. But that's,that's kinda the thought process when you're, when you're in one ofthese races. And then of course there's the whole component of, ofwhen do I go hard? You know, when do I save my matches when you.You know, when, when can I pin it? I think a lot of times, youknow, if, if you're trying to put the group under pressure, it'sgotta be in a section where they are not getting a significantamount of drafts.
So either, either fairly steep climber or some sort of technicalsection, because otherwise you're just kind of giving them afree.
[00:23:39] Craig Dalton: And when you're at thecrux of these races, are you willing to put yourself in a position?blow up entirely, but you know that this is your move. Like this isthe moment. If you're going to win this race, this is the momentyou have to go.
[00:23:54] Dylan Johnson: Yeah.
[00:23:56] Craig Dalton: And, and let me, letme explain. I, I asked that because, you know, as a, as a mid-packracer, like I'm mostly concerned about getting across the finishline. And I know there's not a tremendous amount of value in meblowing myself up to stay on a wheel because I've got to beconcerned with this overall task of me crossing the finishline.
But as a professional athlete, I do imagine the calculation isslightly different.
[00:24:21] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. So generallygenerally what happens is, well, I was, I was talking about how thefront group gets smaller and smaller throughout the race, but alsowhat, what will generally happen is that the pace at the beginningof the race will be much harder than the pace throughout the restof the race. I mean, I don't know.
It's just the nature of racing. So. You know, maybe, maybe somemid Packers don't know that it's, we actually don't keep that paceup for the entire race. We, we do slow down halfway through once,you know, once a significant amount of people have dropped off. Ifyou, you, you kind of have to make these internal calculations,like is staying with.
You know, if you're with a group and you see that your heartrate is at, you know, you're at your threshold heart rate, but it'sa seven hour race. So clearly that's not sustainable. Is it worthit to stay with this group and hope that they're going to slowdown? Or maybe you need to make the calculation that this is toohard to pace and I need I need to go back to the next group on theroad, or I need to draw.
And it's kind of, you know, it's kind of something that youlearn with experience. Most people when they're doing their firstrace are going to go too hard at the beginning. In fact, evenexperienced racers, do that. I would say it's the number one racingmistake in endurance racing in general, let's take gravel racingout of it.
Just endurance racing period. Go into hard at the beginning is,is probably the number one mistake. Yeah, you're making all these,all these calculations in your head looking at your heart rate,looking at your power thinking, Okay.
You know, is, is this sustainable? Is it not sustainable? Isthat, you know, are people around me getting tired?
Is the group gonna slow down? Are they not going to slow down?And sometimes you get it right? And sometimes you.
[00:26:06] Craig Dalton: That makes sense.Before we get into your 2022 plans, I just want to do a quickdetour towards your equipment. Can you talk about the bike you'rerunning the tire size. You prefer aerobars, no arrow bars. Let'sget a couple of details on the table.
[00:26:20] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, well, I don'tknow when this episode's going to air, but as of right now, Icannot talk about the bike that I'm going to be riding running in2022. Hopefully I'll, I'll be able to let people know soon. Butthe, the bike that I was running last year was the Niner RLT nineRDO. I run as far as tires go, I run, I usually run wider thanwhatever the race promoter recommends or whatever.
Probably the average racer there is on.
[00:26:50] Craig Dalton: And why do you dothat?
[00:26:52] Dylan Johnson: Well, I mean, they,so. We're coming to more and more of an understanding that thatwider tires are not necessarily slower. And in fact, on roughterrain, they're usually, they're usually faster. Of course itdepends on how rough the terrain is. But for example, at, atUnbound, I was running 45 millimeter tires.
I think most people are running 40 twos or fours. That's prettystandard for me to be a size up from whatever everybody else isrunning. I like I did.
[00:27:22] Craig Dalton: like I, I feel like Ineed to yell amen or something. Cause I'm all with you on thisDylan.
[00:27:28] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Atthe at the BWR California race I never done that race until, untilthis past. And everybody's talking about how they're runningthirties or 30 twos. Like, it seems like, you know, everybody'srunning their road bike. And I was like, all I had was my gravelbike and I was like 30 twos.
You know, that, that is so narrow. I'm going to go with 36 is Ididn't even know the course, but I was like, I'll go 36 is I nextyear. I'll probably run for. I, that is not to me, to me that therewas, there was straight up single-track in that race. Like thesingle track sections of that course, the fastest bike would havebeen a hardtail mountain bike and people are on their road bikes.Granted there's a ton of road in that race, but I don't know. Ithink a 30 mil tire on a road bike is not, I just get the feelingit's not the fastest. And there were a bunch of parts on thatcourse where even a 36. I I felt sketchy on. So yeah, I'm, I'malways, I'm always going with the bigger tire for the mostpart.
[00:28:36] Craig Dalton: That's interestingbecause certainly BWR San Diego is the one event that people will,will raise their hand and say, oh, you got to go. Road bike styletires, pretty darn narrow,
[00:28:46] Dylan Johnson: I don't know. I don'tknow if you've ever written that course. Have you.
[00:28:50] Craig Dalton: I haven't, but I'veseen enough details and I've got a crew down in San Diego that hastold me about it.
So yeah, I'm with you, you know, it's, it's curious, like at thepoint he ended the race though, like that you didn't necessarilyfeel under equipped on the road sections per se, riding 36 milltires.
[00:29:07] Dylan Johnson: well, most of thetime rode sections in a gravel race. I can see that people areworried if they see, you know, that it's going to be 60% road and40% gravel, it's like that's more road than gravel. You know, Ineed a, I need to prepare for that, but usually it's, it's the, thegravel sections are the deciding factor, at least at the pointy endof the race.
So, you know, if, if it was a time trial, like you're just, youknow, solo for the whole thing, maybe you'd choose, choose a bike.That's more optimal. For what's what you're going to be spendingmore time on. But a lot of times you got to choose the bike set up.That's going to be optimal for the critical points of the race.
[00:29:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And I think thatoften translates to the mid pack is you also have to worry aboutyour own personal comfort across these events. So having a littlebit of extra cushion, I think over a long day in the saddle issuper warranted.
[00:30:03] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. definitely.There's you know, Renee, hers has done some interesting work thetire company. I mean, granted, they're trying to sell tires, so,and I, I'm not sponsored by Renee hers, but I just find the workthat they've done. Super interesting. I think they, they make theclaim and they've got, they've got data to back this up that allthe way from a it's either a 25 millimeter or 28 millimeter roadtire all the way up to a 50 millimeter.
Road tires, no slower in terms of rolling resistance. I mean,it's probably more aerodynamic drag to have a 50 millimeter tire,but they're claiming that the rolling resistance between the two isnot different. So I, I almost, I own, you know, is that true? Isthat not true? I don't know. I've done a little bit of tire testingmyself
and it it's very hard to do.
Did to do tire testing. What I do is I'll find a section ofgravel and I'll write it at the exact same power and then I'llswitch wheels and right at the same power and try to see if, see ifthere's any differences, but, but usually the testing protocolisn't, you know, isn't tight enough that the, the margins are, youknow, you're kind of trying to find a needle in a haystack causeit's small margins, but.
When claims like that are being thrown around. I'm like, why notgo bigger? You know, why not go bigger?
[00:31:25] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I'll re I'llrefer the listener back to my episode with from Renee. And w he, hetalks a little bit about that study and I'm with you. It's beenfascinating. And I guess I've always been on the big tire side ofthings, so maybe it's preaching to the choir, but I'm a believer.And from a confidence perspective for me, it's like night and daywhen I go down to like 38 C tire and I ride what I normally ride ahundred percent.
I miss my, my 43 or 45.
[00:31:55] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. What are you,what are you normally on?
[00:31:57] Craig Dalton: I'm normally on six 50V by 47,
[00:32:00] Dylan Johnson: Okay.
[00:32:01] Craig Dalton: because I live in aparticularly kind of mountain biking part of the country and Marincounty. So my daily rides are definitely more on that side ofthings than any kind of rolling gravel.
[00:32:12] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. And what, whattire specifically do you use?
[00:32:16] Craig Dalton: I use that. Panoraiser gravel king.
[00:32:18] Dylan Johnson: Okay. Yeah. that,that looks like a good one. I've not, I've not tried that one, butI'm. I may a subscriber to bicycle rolling resistance.com. I lovethat site. I looked so much at that site and it's, it's notintuitive. People think that they can just look at a tire.
and assume they know how fast it is just by how much treadit.
Some of the slowest tires are, are dead slick.
[00:32:44] Craig Dalton: So fascinating. I'mnot familiar with that site, so I'll have to check it out.
[00:32:48] Dylan Johnson: Yeah.
[00:32:49] Craig Dalton: So going into your2022 season, now, you're going to be on a new bike. You've got anew program. What do you have in store on your calendar thisyear?
[00:32:57] Dylan Johnson: Well, I, I haven'tbeen selected for the lifetime grand Prix. So that that's going tobe, that's going to be my big goal. I love the fact that it's it's,it's got gravel races and mountain bike races. I mean, I come frommountain bike racing, so I think that's going to suit me you know,looking at the list of writers.
There's so many fast writers on the list. It's a little bitintimidating, but I'll, I'll do the best that I can. I think I'llprobably also try to go for the BWR series again. They're going todo a quadruple crown this year instead of a triple crown. So
[00:33:29] Craig Dalton: And does that work onthe calendar that you could, could do both of those series?
[00:33:33] Dylan Johnson: it does, it does.Yeah.
[00:33:34] Craig Dalton: Amazing. It's going tomake you a busy man.
[00:33:37] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, it will be abusy season. So there's those, those two series already. And then,you know, and then there's other racing here and there I'llprobably be back to gravel Locos. I'll be doing the local
Southeast gravel series here. I'll I'll do some, some mountainbike racing here and there as well.
So it will be a busy.
[00:33:57] Craig Dalton: Great. When you lookedat that lifetime grand Prairie as an opportunity with your mountainbike background, it must've made you smile. That it wasn't a puregravel series.
[00:34:07] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah,definitely. I think that when you look at that series, all theraces on that calendar they, they all look different. I mean,there's, there's a 40 mile mountain bike race, and there's a 200mile gravel race. I think that's the point. I think the point isthat. So winter of that series needs to be a well-rounded athleteor well-rounded off-road cyclists for that matter.
And I, I think it'll be very interesting. I do think thatthere's going to be a lot of luck involved because at least two ofthe races on that, on that series flat tires are, are a realpossibility. And, and Some of those races, bonking is a realpossibility. There's dealing with altitude at Leadville.
I mean, there's all, there's all sorts of factors. So, you know,hopefully, hopefully the strongest rider wins, but I also thinkthat the person that the, you know, that wins the series is goingto need a lot of luck.
[00:35:03] Craig Dalton: As you sort of do thecalculations in your head as to how the points add up and that'syour. Are you thinking about one race over another and thinkingabout, you know, this is where I'm going to try to peak maybe moreso because it suits my capabilities and some other one, obviouslyyou need to do to get the points, but you're not necessarily goingto focus because you just don't believe that your athletic profilematches the possibility of success in that race.
[00:35:28] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I talkedabout this in, in a recent video that I did about. 2022 trainingplan. This series is obviously my main goal, but it's six racesover six months. And you know, any, any coach will tell you thattrying to peak six times over the course of six months is, is youknow, it's not going to happen.
So I I'm gonna try and go for three peaks this year. And Ipicked, I picked the three longest races by duration. On theschedule. So that's, that's Unbound, Leadville and then the lastone, big sugar and, and like I said, you know, longer racesgenerally suit me better. So that's why I picked those three.
And they're also spaced pretty evenly. There's there's a twomonth gap between each one which gives me enough time to do alittle, a little rest period before I build up again. So, you know,and the, and the other thing too, is I have experienced doingUnbound. I don't have experience doing the other races, althoughI'm very experienced in a hundred mile mountain bike racing, whichI hope will help me in Leadville.
And then, and then the other races on the calendar, I'm going todo them, obviously I'll do all six. And I'll just, I'll just do aswell as I can, but I won't necessarily be peaking peaking forthose.
[00:36:44] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I think this isgoing to be super interesting in retrospect, at the end of theyear. And maybe we can have a conversation, hopefully I'll be atabout a big sugar and just talk about how it went and across allthe athletes in the field. I think people are going to havedifferent strategies about what they can be successful, how andwhen they can be successful.
So, you know, kudos to Lightspeed lifetime. Bringing togetherthe capital to insent people enough to go after this race series.Cause I do think as a fan of the sport, it's going to be anexciting year in 2022.
[00:37:18] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I think itwould be very exciting. Very exciting.
[00:37:22] Craig Dalton: Dylan, thank you somuch for sharing your story on the podcast this week, as I said,I'll, I'll refer people to your YouTube channel and I encourageeverybody to follow Dylan. He's a colorful rider. He's superinsightful and an up and comer and someone we should be having eyeson in 2022.
[00:37:37] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I appreciateit. Thanks so much for having me on.
[00:37:40] Craig Dalton: So that's going to doit for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Huge. Thanksto Dylan. For coming onboard the show. I hope you enjoyed theconversation. And I do encourage you to visit him over on YouTube.I think you'll get a kick out of it. If you're interested inproviding any feedback, please hit me up over at the ridership.That's www dot the ridership.
Dot com it's a free global cycling community. We've created toconnect with other gravel, cyclists, and adventure athletes outthere. Uh, encourage you to join the conversations, always vibrant,and there's a wealth of knowledge over there. So feel free to tapinto that. If you're able to contribute to the podcast directly,please visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride.
I very much appreciate everybody. Who's stepped up to underwriteportions of this show.
Until next time. Here's the finding some dirt onto yourwheels
