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MichelB
Senior Member
Paris
Français
- Dec 13, 2018
- #1
Hi everyone !
I'm translating a documentary in which usual swear words (shit, fuck, etc.) are replaced by the sound [beep].
Here I have the following sentence : "I'm sweating like a whore in church".
And there is no [beep]. And I was wondering if it was just an oversight, or if the word "whore" wasn't that rude in English. It seemed like a horrible word to me, but my native language is French, so I couldn't really tell.
Thanks a lot
User With No Name
Senior Member
US English (Texas)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #2
That's an interesting question. "Whore" is certainly offensive and would be avoided by most well-spoken people. First, traditionally it's not a profession that most people would speak about very openly. Second, it's insulting and demeaning to sex workers.
Having said that, and I'm not sure I can explain this, for some reason the word itself is not necessarily taboo in the way that the other "dirty words" you mention are. So I'm not especially surprised that it's not bleeped out in your documentary. It was not, for example, one of George Carlin's "seven dirty words."
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MichelB
Senior Member
Paris
Français
- Dec 13, 2018
- #3
Thanks for your answer! I wasn't aware of those seven dirty words by George Carlin, that's interesting.
So I'm gonna try and find a middle ground here. With a word which would be "raw" and "not very appropriate" but not awfully vulgar as well.
Thanks again
entangledbank
Senior Member
London
English - South-East England
- Dec 13, 2018
- #4
No, it's either an old-fashioned description or an insult, but in either case it's not the level of word that would ever be bleeped out.
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MichelB
Senior Member
Paris
Français
- Dec 13, 2018
- #5
Ok! Good to know. Thanks to both of you
velisarius
Senior Member
Greece
British English (Sussex)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #6
It appears in the title of a tragedy ('Tis Pity She's a Whore) and in the Biblical phrase "whore of Babylon", for a start.
In fact, it's possibly the frequent use of the word and its offshoots (whoremonger, whorish, whoredom etc.) in Biblical translations that accounts for its comparative respectability. A quick search revealed about 100 occurrances. "Harlot" was quite a favourite too, but seldom used nowadays.
User With No Name
Senior Member
US English (Texas)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #7
velisarius said:
In fact, it's possibly the frequent use of the word and its offshoots (whoremonger, whorish, whoredom etc.) in Biblical translations that accounts for its comparative respectability.
Excellent point. Still, for the benefit of any non-native English speakers who read this, it's definitely not a word one needs to be throwing around in casual conversation today.
velisarius
Senior Member
Greece
British English (Sussex)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #8
True, but I think today it's taboo because it's considered more judgemental than vulgar. I think "sex-worker" is the most neutral PC term available to us.
Keith Bradford
Senior Member
Brittany, NW France
English (Midlands UK)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #9
On another website which I once frequented, whore was one of the words which was automatically turned by the software into *****. So this made it impossible to quote Revelation, chapter 17, of the King James Bible.
However, the same software gave us "I was going to a ****tail party" and the great 19th-century novelist "Charles ****ens". It's not a good model to copy, once you abide by UWNN's caveat in #7.
ewie
Senior Member
Manchester 🏴🇬🇧
English English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #10
Keith Bradford said:
O"I was going to a ****tail party" and the great 19th-century novelist "Charles ****ens"
Like a whore in church is new to me. I generally just sweat like a horse
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MichelB
Senior Member
Paris
Français
- Dec 13, 2018
- #11
Thanks to all of you ! Actually very interesting. I hadn't thought about the biblical references. It makes sense.
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Glenfarclas
Senior Member
Chicago
English (American)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #12
velisarius said:
True, but I think today it's taboo because it's considered more judgemental than vulgar. I think "sex-worker" is the most neutral PC term available to us.
"Prostitute" is the standard word. "Sex worker" is rather an invention pushed by people who, whatever their motivation, want to normalize prostitution.
dojibear
Senior Member
Fresno CA
English (US - northeast)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #13
MichelB said:
Here I have the following sentence : "I'm sweating like a whore in church".
There are many other phrase a person could say, to mean "sweating a lot". Intentionally using "whore" means going out of your way to use very vulgar words -- almost swear words. If you want the person to be intentionally vulgar ("foul-mouthed") in your translation, then do so. Otherwise use a neutral idiom:
ewie said:
I generally just sweat like a horse
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dojibear
Senior Member
Fresno CA
English (US - northeast)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #14
Glenfarclas said:
"Prostitute" is the standard word. "Sex worker" is rather an invention pushed by people who, whatever their motivation, want to normalize prostitution.
"Sex worker" seems recent to me: the last 20 years. As Glenfarclas says, I see the word used by organizations (of prostitutes) that are trying to legalize prostitution, or reduce the negative stigma around this profession.
Prostitution is often called (in English) "the world's oldest profession". It has always had negative words (strumpet, whore) and neutral words (hooker, prostitute) and positive words (courtesan, concubine) and euphemisms (working girl, street walker, call girl, massage parlor). Some standard words are in the thesaurus (thesaurus.com) but every decade seems to invent new words and stop using old words.
According to etymonline.com, "courtesan" has been used (with this meaning) in English since the 1540s.
User With No Name
Senior Member
US English (Texas)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #15
dojibear said:
As Glenfarclas says, I see the word used by organizations (of prostitutes) that are trying to legalize prostitution, or reduce the negative stigma around this profession.
I've seen it from people who want better treatment for them and less stigma, which isn't necessarily the same thing as thinking legalizing prostitution would be a great idea.
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #16
I'm not so sure I would call "whore" vulgar as much as I would say it was derogatory.
There are more whores in Las Vegas per capita than any other major city. (Does not sound vulgar to me, and not too derogatory either.)
You cheap little whore. (Sounds very degratory).
Categories established by Packard and are very subjective.
Formal: Prostitute, courtesan (rarely used).
Informal: Call girl, hooker
semi-derogatory: Street walker
derogatory: Whore, tart
Chasint
Senior Member
English - England
- Dec 13, 2018
- #17
"I'm sweating like a whore in church".
It just wouldn't make sense to say, " "I'm sweating like a sex-worker in church".
The whole point is that being a whore is condemned in the Bible and therefore we are to suppose it would be condemned in church. The whore is not sweating because of the heat. She is sweating from fear of eternal damnation because of the words of the preacher. She is regularly committing 'sins of the flesh'.
Using a neutral term doesn't convey the sense at all.
You could perhaps say, "like a murderer in church" or "like a thief in church".
Note this may not be the Catholic Church where people are forgiven their sins. There may be a "hellfire and damnation" preacher.
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Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #18
Chasint said:
"I'm sweating like a whore in church".
It just wouldn't make sense to say, " "I'm sweating like a sex-worker in church".
The whole point is that being a whore is condemned in the Bible and therefore we are to suppose it would be condemned in church. The whore is not sweating because of the heat. She is sweating from fear of eternal damnation because of the words of the preacher. She is regularly committing 'sins of the flesh'.
U sing a neutral term doesn't convey the sense at all.
You could perhaps say, "like a murderer in church" or "like a thief in church".
Note this may not be the Catholic Church where people are forgiven their sins.
That and the fact that they wanted to set her ablaze:
Genesis 38:
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt
Hermione Golightly
Senior Member
London
British English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #19
I don't think 'tart' is as anything like as derogatory as 'whore'.
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #20
Hermione Golightly said:
I don't think 'tart' is as anything like as derogatory as 'whore'.
For me, "whore", "tart", "hussy", "bimbo", "harlot", "tramp", "floozy", "slut", all fall in about the same range. If I were to rank these, and the differences in my mind are subtle, the list would look like this:
- Whore (tied for first place as most offensive.)
- Slut (tied for first place)
- Tart (tied for second place)
- Hussy (tied for second place)
- Bimbo (tied for second place)
- Tramp (tied for second place)
- Floozy (tied for third place)
- Vixen (tied for third place)
- Harridan (added to the list because I like the word)
heypresto
Senior Member
South East England
English - England
- Dec 13, 2018
- #21
'Hussy' and 'floozy' have a very 1950s 'landlady of 'respectable' lodgings' feel about them.
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #22
heypresto said:
'Hussy' and 'floozy' have a very 1950s 'landlady of 'respectable' lodgings' feel about them.
I use both terms. Mostly for humorous effect. Women under 30 don't always understand the words, the bimbos!
By the way, "bimbo", according to Webster's 2nd International Dictionary (in print from 1934 to 1961) applied to men, not women.
JulianStuart
Senior Member
Sonoma County CA
English (UK then US)
- Dec 13, 2018
- #23
ewie said:
Like a whore in church is new to me. I generally just sweat like a horse
OK - "sweating like a horse in church"?
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Dec 13, 2018
- #24
JulianStuart said:
OK - "sweating like a horse in church"?
Hardly seems to have worked up a lather.
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